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bradly 2 minutes ago [-]
In the past 7-Eleven was unique in the franchise world where you could make a comfortable living owning a single store and that was the major ownership model. McDonalds and other options at the time really depended on a multi-store ownership model. Corporate 7-Eleven (Southland Corp technically) moved away from this single store model in the mid to late 90's, instead preferring single, larger corporations in a region, owning 10+ stores over a single store owner. They made this happen over a 20 year span by changing the contracts franchisees sign and must to re-sign every x years. Ever contract renewal drastically reduced the single store income and made it much harder for single store owners to make a living. Corporate also started preferring to give new stores to existing, large scale franchises over new store owners which changes the initial capital needed for a store by over 10x as with an existing store you will have to pay the rights from the previous franchisee instead of just the corporate.
My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles all own or have owned 7-Eleven stores and have since the 80's. I've work there, been to their conferences, and still get to hear about them at all family gatherings :)
sodality2 34 minutes ago [-]
This was my home gas station for 4 years so I may be biased, but it is fine. Symptomatic of a deeper car-centric problem, sure.
yowayb 1 minutes ago [-]
I have fond high school memories at gas stations
HawtAds 30 minutes ago [-]
No, this is just poor management. Japanese 7-11s are ran better because of better culture, products and management. It's not magic.
Transformanshen 24 minutes ago [-]
I tend to agree with you
Ozzie_osman 35 minutes ago [-]
In systems thinking, this would be called "intrinsic responsibility" (or lack thereof).
> Intrinsic responsibility” means that the system is designed to send feedback about the consequences of decision making directly and quickly and compellingly to the decision makers. Because the pilot of a plane rides in the front of the plane, that pilot is intrinsically responsible. He or she will experience directly the consequences of his or her decisions.
How does that work, though? In the early days, pilots were daredevils. It doesn’t seem like aviation became safer because pilots took risks?
Workspace safety didn’t improve by blaming the workers, even though they bore the risk.
snackbroken 38 seconds ago [-]
Workplace safety improved massively when labor unions became a thing and workers got a say in safety standards.
throwitaway222 17 minutes ago [-]
I think part of the reason the US doesn't feel like the US anymore is that ownership of properties is no longer Bob who dreamed of some day opening a Pizza shop on Main st. It's all corporate now, all the way down.
sroussey 2 minutes ago [-]
Actually, 7-11 is a shrewd negotiator and will not invest anything over fixing something broken, and the landlord is not in charge here as these are all triple net. So it doesn’t matter who owns the land. But, yes, the corp running that business is thousands of miles away.
But the real issue here a that people stop at a 7-Eleven where if the same building in same condition said Bobs Convenience Store, they would not. We learned that decades ago.
cogman10 3 minutes ago [-]
Yup. Consolidation of the markets is ultimately what's destroyed small businesses. It's currently working on the likes of dentists and vets.
The US has devolved to the point where only someone with a large amount of wealth can start and run a business. You can't open up a small hardware shop anymore because no bank will give that loan and no supplier will give you the same wholesale prices they give to the likes of Home Depot or Lowes or heck even Walmart.
At every level in the supply distribution system we've seen consolidation and ultimately locking out of competition.
For example, here's why independent pharmacists have been going out of business [1]. We need new Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt anti-trust breakups to make capitalism work again. Capitalism can't work without a diverse competitive market.
I want to see what the author considers a nice 7-11 for contrast, because it seems normal to me? Could be more walkable of course but I'm not sure that's on the REIT. They didn't lay out the roads or anything.
The wood paneling and nice front lights actually seem like an improvement over local 7-11s if anything.
skybrian 19 minutes ago [-]
Zoning might be seen as a way of getting local control over property that’s actually owned by someone else, for better or worse. Developers often have to make concessions to local governments to get approval, and NIMBYism has its downsides.
A local government has options like creating a historical district if they really want to control aesthetics. A home owner’s association can control aesthetics in a residential area. They are just people and you might disagree with their decisions.
Real estate is expensive. Large commercial properties usually require rich owners. the local gentry that owns farms and car dealerships and shopping malls and fast-food franchises isn’t necessarily any more interested in aethetics than an REIT.
It seems like land-use governance is always going to be messy no matter how it’s structured?
schnevets 50 minutes ago [-]
So Vanguard owns one-eighth of ADC, an REIT whose stock price has declined 2.65% in the last 5 years. Surely there is space in the market for a smaller, leaner, possibly privately-owned REIT whose values more closely align with 2026 values and will one day be able to eat ADC's lunch.
iamnothere 32 minutes ago [-]
CRE is a tough market right now, but you would think that a little bit of minimal creativity and effort could make an impact. I get annoyed with the overreliance on murals to provide faux authenticity, but even that is usually better than a bland box.
mixdup 10 minutes ago [-]
only a 2.65% decline in a commercial real estate REIT is probably beating the market
sidewndr46 28 minutes ago [-]
I think the tax incentives of an REIT pretty much mandate it be publicly traded?
Terr_ 27 minutes ago [-]
By that logic, I also own a microscopic share in all sorts of businesses, many of which have their own sadness or disinterest.
Is there anything that makes real-estate significantly different, beyond how the pathos can be more-easily photographed?
In other words, I think a lot of the (real) legal/financial/incentive issues raised in the article have loose counterparts for other forms of investment.
> The shortcoming of such analyses is that they make it difficult to capture the value that would accrue to a project that created a neighborhood.
Sounds like an opportunity for experts in the field to develop and sell a good kind of analysis!
Though point-taken: It'd still be hard to attract cautious investors until something is perceived as "proven".
ddj231 39 minutes ago [-]
seems like aesthetically it matches its surroundings. it doesn't seem like an outlier in the neighborhood which kind of defeats the premise of the article.
FLeXMurphy 58 minutes ago [-]
Ah, perfect. A patronizing tone to start off the article. Where have I seen this before?
jafo1989 40 minutes ago [-]
As a frequent walker to the 7-11 in my "soul-crushing suburban district", I decided to look up the 7-11 landscape in Williamsburg, Virginia using the satellite view in Google Maps. Every single one of them is walkable from residential property.
My guess is the author lives in a densely populated urban area, and doesn't understand how "soul-crushing suburban districts" really work.
I've been walking to my 7-11 for over 30 years, and have gotten to know many attendants over the years.
It's certainly walkable from the hotels, and the houses/apartments to the north, but not the ones to the south as there's a stream in the way (see OpenStreetMap) but no footbridges.
The author has some valid points (i.e. people criticise business decisions made to appease shareholders without realising they may be the shareholders in a roundabout way) but chose some rather odd examples as proof.
iamnothere 30 minutes ago [-]
Way to miss the entire point of the article. It’s not anti 7-11, it’s against underinvestment in local properties and lack of reasonable planning, driven by distant ownership.
I can also walk to a convenience store, in fact I’m fairly lucky with the amenities available in my neighborhood, but many places I’ve been (and previously lived) are disorganized and lack the livability of communities where the buildings have primarily local owners.
jafo1989 18 minutes ago [-]
Point is: I enjoy my neighborhood 7-11 without caring about how it looks, who owns it, or worrying about all the capitalism trade-offs.
It's just a 7-11. The charm is the walk and the experience.
iamnothere 1 minutes ago [-]
You seem really stuck on 7-11. The article is not about 7-11. That’s just the example the author used, and honestly the author could have picked a better one. Just imagine that they picked vape shops or something instead.
I have lived in places where you can’t walk anywhere useful because the absentee owners didn’t want to invest in finding good tenants. The buildings were fine, but partially empty, and there was even a shortage of local office space, so they could have rented at a premium with just a little bit of investment.
trgn 31 minutes ago [-]
the commodification of everything, just one more example. once you see it, you cannot unsee it.
bittercynic 22 minutes ago [-]
I think we're in agreement that commodification is often harmful, and should be constrained more than it currently is. It seems many of our fellow commenters are pretty enthusiastic about turning everything into a financial asset, though.
rootsudo 41 minutes ago [-]
On the flip side: your retirement is dependent on the property listed in the article and if no improvements are needed while it generates a return…
It means you’re a landlord!
Congratulations!!
Give yourself a round of applause. By not maintaining it, you are electing to keep cash flow high and profits secured. The overall commercial market has negative numbers so even if said REIT is down 2.65% it’s hedged together with numerous properties in a nice geographic arbitrage opportunity to minimize losses.
Is that really… So bad?
SoftTalker 38 minutes ago [-]
A common saying is that in real estate, you make your money when you buy and when you sell, in other words not paying too much and timing sales to profit from appreciation. Cash flow from rent isn't a big part of it, that normally covers taxes, insurance, debt servicing, and maintenance but not a whole lot more.
rootsudo 34 minutes ago [-]
Well, it depends, if you’re going for ARV and appreciation, cash flow helps a lot on holding costs.
While I agree with you make money when you buy/biggerpockets quotes, you want cash flow to minimize holding costs.
iamnothere 29 minutes ago [-]
True, but in exchange, “you” (meaning all of us) get to live out our lives and eventually our retirements in a bland, depressing facsimile of a culture.
pessimizer 37 minutes ago [-]
"You" is 10-20% of the US population. The rest will never actually be able to afford retirement, and have no investments. 50% don't have an extra $500 in case of emergency.
1-more 26 minutes ago [-]
Maybe things have changed since 2022, but per the Fed's survey that year, the median American had $8,000 in transaction accounts alone (not unrealized stock gains, vehicles, houses, retirement, etc.). Because that's a median, 50% of the population had that much or more. By age cohort, the smallest median dollar amount was under 35s with $5,400, and the largest was 65-74s with $13,400
Those numbers are usually a bit iffy, but also retirement funds and emergency funds are separate things and you can have a retirement fund without a big emergency fund. If your plan for a rare emergency is "don't pay off the credit card in full for two months" then that's probably fine.
rootsudo 32 minutes ago [-]
You’re not wrong, but the onus is on whom to provide financial literacy?
The majority of people do have a safety net in social security. While it may not be enough, it is something…
nemomarx 28 minutes ago [-]
Is it something? like do you think the program will still be around in 50 years for today's graduates, etc?
rootsudo 22 minutes ago [-]
1. I’ll be in that cohort so yes, I hope it’d be around.
2. There is a cost of living adjustment matched to inflation.
3. It was supposed to supplement your retirement not fund it.
But I do agree it is on shaky ground with the current administration and the future of the US dollar in the world. The problem is, if I’m critical of it and it crashes, I get nothing. So why would I be critical of my own interest?
Do I have alternatives such as buying vanguard ETFs and minimizing risk? Yes, is that the primary vehicle? More assurance than social security, that’s for sure.
But who knows what’d happen in 25 years.
zzzeek 29 minutes ago [-]
7-11's, which I frequent often, need a slightly higher food quality selection to appease affluents like me, but as far as how they look, that's what a 7-11 looks like! It's what I look for when I'm driving, on "stroads" / highways, and am looking for an exactly predictable experience, one which is low-key, inexpensive, and does not imply a formal dress code. I'd never want a 7-11 to look like a brownstone in the west village, that would imply an entirely different kind of business establishment.
iamnothere 21 minutes ago [-]
This does seem like a fair criticism, the 7-11 style seems fine to me. (The food selection is much better in Japanese 7-11s, though.) When I see them they are usually in better shape than other nearby stations.
Small touches such as landscaping can really make a difference. For example, 7-11s at the beach often seem to put in a little more effort, although I don’t know if that’s the store or the landlord.
zzzeek 16 minutes ago [-]
yes japanese 7-11s are exactly what i had in mind. a 7-11 that also has good quality sushi to go would be amazing. it's commonplace in bodegas in NYC (more the Asian owned ones) for example. that and, just one actual dark chocolate selection amidst the piles of low-quality milk chocolate M&Ms and hershey products. it's not a big ask.
askafriend 39 minutes ago [-]
It looks like a normal 7-Eleven.
spicyusername 47 minutes ago [-]
I mean, to be fair, local owners of buildings also neglect them sometimes.
So, even if this is a problem, fixing it doesn't immediately make neighborhoods beautiful.
The linked letter has absolutely nothing to do with TFA other than a very tenuous link to Vanguard: It was written a founder who hasn't been in charge of Vanguard for several decades.
pessimizer 27 minutes ago [-]
Absentee owners should be taxed out of existence. The distance between an investment and the people who understand it is a law enforcement liability (it encourages fraud), a public liability (it inevitably concentrates ownership who can easily lobby and get bailouts), and leads to missed opportunities and inefficient use.
The mass US real estate fraud that ended in 2008 was entirely built around loaning money to people who weren't creditworthy for overvalued property that they had no expertise to judge, then immediately selling that loan to somebody who would hide it in a complex product and immediately sell it again. Eventually, these was sold to municipalities and pension funds in complex gambling vehicles whose value would fall to zero if anything went wrong in this structure, after being branded "AAA" by institutions 1) paid by the people selling the products, and 2) literally written into legislation by name and into the rules governing the pension funds.
That's what distance between an investor and in investment gets you. Tax every single hop. Make them break themselves up.
Terr_ 25 minutes ago [-]
I assume that proposal extends to all sorts of investment (e.g. general business stocks) and isn't scoped to real-estate alone?
cyberax 3 minutes ago [-]
This is a stupid article. "Sad" is not an objective criterion. Is IKEA furniture sad? I think the author would say so.
I _love_ the pictured 7-Elevens, especially the one in Austin, TX. They are perfectly functional: you drop in, get whatever items you need, and get out in seconds. Everything is designed to help you with that.
The parking lot is a necessity for convenience stores because you likely won't invest 30-40 minutes of your time to _walk_ to a convenience store. You might as well just walk to a full-blown store. The exceptions are, of course, "food deserts" where the density death spiral has hit the bottom and made the city unliveable (see: Manhattan, Tokyo).
The places like "Captains Row" are beautiful to look at but hellish to actually _live_ in. Ask me how I know. They are the equivalent of the restored classic cars: beautiful to look at, but unsafe and uncomfortable for actual use compared to modern cars.
My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles all own or have owned 7-Eleven stores and have since the 80's. I've work there, been to their conferences, and still get to hear about them at all family gatherings :)
Workspace safety didn’t improve by blaming the workers, even though they bore the risk.
But the real issue here a that people stop at a 7-Eleven where if the same building in same condition said Bobs Convenience Store, they would not. We learned that decades ago.
The US has devolved to the point where only someone with a large amount of wealth can start and run a business. You can't open up a small hardware shop anymore because no bank will give that loan and no supplier will give you the same wholesale prices they give to the likes of Home Depot or Lowes or heck even Walmart.
At every level in the supply distribution system we've seen consolidation and ultimately locking out of competition.
For example, here's why independent pharmacists have been going out of business [1]. We need new Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt anti-trust breakups to make capitalism work again. Capitalism can't work without a diverse competitive market.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmZtBW54GNI
The wood paneling and nice front lights actually seem like an improvement over local 7-11s if anything.
A local government has options like creating a historical district if they really want to control aesthetics. A home owner’s association can control aesthetics in a residential area. They are just people and you might disagree with their decisions.
Real estate is expensive. Large commercial properties usually require rich owners. the local gentry that owns farms and car dealerships and shopping malls and fast-food franchises isn’t necessarily any more interested in aethetics than an REIT.
It seems like land-use governance is always going to be messy no matter how it’s structured?
Is there anything that makes real-estate significantly different, beyond how the pathos can be more-easily photographed?
In other words, I think a lot of the (real) legal/financial/incentive issues raised in the article have loose counterparts for other forms of investment.
> The shortcoming of such analyses is that they make it difficult to capture the value that would accrue to a project that created a neighborhood.
Sounds like an opportunity for experts in the field to develop and sell a good kind of analysis!
Though point-taken: It'd still be hard to attract cautious investors until something is perceived as "proven".
My guess is the author lives in a densely populated urban area, and doesn't understand how "soul-crushing suburban districts" really work.
I've been walking to my 7-11 for over 30 years, and have gotten to know many attendants over the years.
It's certainly walkable from the hotels, and the houses/apartments to the north, but not the ones to the south as there's a stream in the way (see OpenStreetMap) but no footbridges.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/37.282725/-76.711704
I can also walk to a convenience store, in fact I’m fairly lucky with the amenities available in my neighborhood, but many places I’ve been (and previously lived) are disorganized and lack the livability of communities where the buildings have primarily local owners.
It's just a 7-11. The charm is the walk and the experience.
I have lived in places where you can’t walk anywhere useful because the absentee owners didn’t want to invest in finding good tenants. The buildings were fine, but partially empty, and there was even a shortage of local office space, so they could have rented at a premium with just a little bit of investment.
It means you’re a landlord!
Congratulations!!
Give yourself a round of applause. By not maintaining it, you are electing to keep cash flow high and profits secured. The overall commercial market has negative numbers so even if said REIT is down 2.65% it’s hedged together with numerous properties in a nice geographic arbitrage opportunity to minimize losses.
Is that really… So bad?
While I agree with you make money when you buy/biggerpockets quotes, you want cash flow to minimize holding costs.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...
The majority of people do have a safety net in social security. While it may not be enough, it is something…
2. There is a cost of living adjustment matched to inflation.
3. It was supposed to supplement your retirement not fund it.
But I do agree it is on shaky ground with the current administration and the future of the US dollar in the world. The problem is, if I’m critical of it and it crashes, I get nothing. So why would I be critical of my own interest?
Do I have alternatives such as buying vanguard ETFs and minimizing risk? Yes, is that the primary vehicle? More assurance than social security, that’s for sure.
But who knows what’d happen in 25 years.
Small touches such as landscaping can really make a difference. For example, 7-11s at the beach often seem to put in a little more effort, although I don’t know if that’s the store or the landlord.
So, even if this is a problem, fixing it doesn't immediately make neighborhoods beautiful.
The mass US real estate fraud that ended in 2008 was entirely built around loaning money to people who weren't creditworthy for overvalued property that they had no expertise to judge, then immediately selling that loan to somebody who would hide it in a complex product and immediately sell it again. Eventually, these was sold to municipalities and pension funds in complex gambling vehicles whose value would fall to zero if anything went wrong in this structure, after being branded "AAA" by institutions 1) paid by the people selling the products, and 2) literally written into legislation by name and into the rules governing the pension funds.
That's what distance between an investor and in investment gets you. Tax every single hop. Make them break themselves up.
I _love_ the pictured 7-Elevens, especially the one in Austin, TX. They are perfectly functional: you drop in, get whatever items you need, and get out in seconds. Everything is designed to help you with that.
The parking lot is a necessity for convenience stores because you likely won't invest 30-40 minutes of your time to _walk_ to a convenience store. You might as well just walk to a full-blown store. The exceptions are, of course, "food deserts" where the density death spiral has hit the bottom and made the city unliveable (see: Manhattan, Tokyo).
The places like "Captains Row" are beautiful to look at but hellish to actually _live_ in. Ask me how I know. They are the equivalent of the restored classic cars: beautiful to look at, but unsafe and uncomfortable for actual use compared to modern cars.